School Quote #6708333
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What happened when prayer was taken out of school...? Group A:

What happened when prayer was taken out of school...?

Group A: Young People

1. For 15 years before 1963 pregnancies in girls ages 15 through 19 years had been no more than 15 per thousand After 1963 pregnancies increased 187% in the next 15 years.

2. For younger girls, ages 10 to 14 years, pregnancies since 1963 are up 553%.

3. Before 1963 sexually transmitted diseases among students were 400 per 100,000. Since 1963, they were up 226% in the next
12 years.

Group B: The Family

1. Before 1963 divorce rates had been declining for 15 years. After 1963 divorces increased 300% each year for the next 15 years.

2. Since 1963 unmarried people living together is up 353%

3. Since 1963 single parent families are up 140%.

4. Since 1963 single parent families with children are up 160%.

Group C: Education

1. The educational standard of measure has been the SAT scores. SAT scores had been steady for many years before 1963. From 1963 they rapidly declined for 18 consecutive years, even though the same test has been used since 1941.

2. In 1974-75 the rate of decline of the SAT scores decreased, even though they continued to decline. That was when there was an explosion of private religious schools. There were only 1000 Christian schools in 1965. Between 1974 to 1984 they increased to 32,000.

a. That could have an impact if the private schools had higher SAT scores. In checking with the SAT Board it was found that indeed the SAT scores for private schools were nearly 100 points higher than public schools.

b. In fact the scores were at the point where the public schools had been before their decline started in 1963 when prayer and Bible reading/instruction was removed from the schools.

c. The scores in the public schools were still declining.

Group D: The Nation

1. Since 1963 violent crime has increased 544%.

3. Illegal drugs have become an enormous & uncontrollable problem.

2. The nation has been deprived of an estimated 30 million citizens through legal abortions just since 1973.

17 Comments

barakat* 7 years ago
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I thinks it's unfair to the people who aren't in a certain religion, though. Aside from the separation of church and state, public schools being included as part of the state, maybe consider the minorities? Maybe someone is Muslim and doesn't believe in a certain prayer, or someone is Satanic (which is completely their right), or an atheist, or another religion. It isn't fair that they should have to do the prayer, or even have to sit through it. You wanna pray? Do it before school, or do a silent prayer to yourself.

Anyway, a prayer in a classroom will not stop a student from doing whatever they want in a bedroom, or lower abortion rates, or SAT scores (which I personally think is the worst example, sorry.) It would be the same as doing a prayer every night before sleep, or when you wake up. It wouldn't change anything in the schools. Have you ever seen the movie Easy A? A girl in the movie was talking about her boyfriend who was 20 (I think) and still repeating high school, because "if God wanted him to pass he would have given him the answers [on the test]." I realize that was just Hollywood being annoying, but it is on a smaller level, true. Kids have gotten dumber just because they have, with all these new electronic distractions and all. It's not because we don't ask the Lord to give us the wisdom to learn in school today, or whatever. (I don't know how prayers go, I don't believe in God nor religion.)

I don't mean to be rude, but I've heard this argument many times, and although Christianity is a largely dominant religion, it's still a matter of equality.
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sugrfree 7 years ago
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Life isn't fair and I doubt it ever will be.
I'm just saying, these are the statistics.
If a teacher wants to pray with her class, I would think she/he has a right to do so.
The statistics speak for themselves. It's my opinion and I put it out there not to be changed, but to be heard.
With or without God, people can do things, but before the 60s, when God was allowed in schools, things weren't as bad as they are now (not that things have ever really been that great, but this is what we deal with today.)
Yes. Equality for a student to lead prayer if they wish.
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FlorenceSong 7 years ago
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The statistics posted above lack citation. I have searched this and found it's source page, and the source page as well lacks citation for statistics. You can't determining the validity of the statistics.
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sugrfree 7 years ago
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Well, if you read the book with the statistics, you've got the sources. Plain and simple. I believe it's "To Pray Or Not To Pray." Can't remember the author.
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FlorenceSong 7 years ago
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I think there are many other variables to be considered than just the removal of prayer and bible instruction from school.
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sugrfree 7 years ago
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Such as? Lotsa things happened in the sixties. Particularly all not good for the USA imo.
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FlorenceSong 7 years ago
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School is only an educational institution. Prayer/bible instruction can give rise to feelings of religious discrimination and inequality in the minds of children. Students are exposed to religious differences between each other for no reason.
Prayer in school is already legal. Students are already allowed to pray on a voluntary basis (in a non-disruptive way) so formal school prayer is unnecessary.
School prayer may lead to intolerance. Public prayer will highlight religious differences of which students may have been unaware. Those students who abstain from school prayer ostracized.
The public school system is created for all students and supported by all taxpayers. It should therefore remain neutral on religious issues over which students and taxpayers will differ.

Imagine if you had to sit in a class your of all/mostly muslin/atheist/other and listen to them preach their views when you obviously think differently, how do you think other students would react to you knowing that you believe very differently from them.

The world is a different place than it was in the 50s.
Yes, lotsa things happened in the 60s. LOTS of good(not all but alot). Civil rights, sexual revolution, women's liberation, separation of church and state, legalization of homosexualty.
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sugrfree 7 years ago
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I actually have Muslim friends, and have learned about Islam/other religions. It's nice to know that I'm confident in my religion by hearing about their religions as well.
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FlorenceSong 7 years ago
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It's not about confidence in your own religion. The fact is children are cruel. And religion is a hard topic for even adults to get along while discussing. If every one is siting in bible in instruction or praying and there is one kid siting out how do you think children will react to that. Religious bullying is already a problem in schools. I know I went through it.
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sugrfree 7 years ago
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Children wouldn't be so cruel if they were taught to treat each other with respect and actually had parents who taught them better.
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FlorenceSong 7 years ago
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This about prayer/bible instruction in schools not parents. And religious does not always make a moral person. If read crime statics you would see that.
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sugrfree 7 years ago
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Parents live with their kids (usually.) And it's expected that they'll turn out somewhat like them in one way or another.

You're right. It doesn't. I mean, look at radical Islamists, sodomized people and murdering gay people even thought they've likely participated in some homosexual activity themselves.
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sugrfree 7 years ago
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*though

I'm just saying, if a teacher want to pray with her class, she should be able to do it.
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sugrfree 7 years ago
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Do you honestly think it's a coincidence that all these things skyrocketed in the sixties, when prayer was taken out of school? Do you honestly believe that? The statistics are there.
Women's liberation? What were they liberated from? And sexual revolution, as we can see in the statistics above, has gotten us into tons of STDs, etc.
Here is a quote from the Northwest Ordinance: "Article 3: Religion, morality, and knowledge being necessary to good government and the happiness of mankind, schools and the means of education shall forever be encouraged."
The First Amendment says, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."
*Pregnancies in Teen Aged Girls - By 1994 had gone up 400%-Highest rate of teen aged motherhood in the West. *Sexually Transmitted Diseases - Cases of gonorrhea up almost 400% among students age 10 to 14. *Two Thirds of teenage boys say they've had . By the time they are 18 they've had on average, 5 partners. *Rapes committed by 13-14 year old boys increased 186%

They speak for themselves.
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FlorenceSong 7 years ago
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There are MANY more factors than just prayer. The women's liberation movement was the second wave of feminism. If you don't know, you need to really read about how sexist the 50s and 60s were, which is why women had to fight for equality. Society was still VERY sexist toward women still. As for the sexual revolution, this would usally be due to improper teaching of sexual education, in particular about proper protection via condoms and contraception. Such policies are usually taught by "abstinence only" curriculums which are generally used in the more religious areas.
ALL statistics of areas which teach "abstinence only" show an INCREASE in pregnancy and STDs as compared to areas which teach a full education course, it should be concluded lack of education is the factor, not a lack of prayer. Divorce rates are HIGHEST among born again christians and jews, and LOWEST among atheists/agnostics. If lack of prayer in school is a factor, it's a good thing for divorce rates.
Under "C. Education"
This entire section says nothing about the increased cuts for public education and uses only the SAT as the guage. As the SAT is generally used on the coasts while the ACT is used throughout the middle of the USA, including most of the Bible Belt.
Also surprising is that this test was first used 1959, just a few years before the afformentioned decrease in SAT scores.

It also neglects to mention that throughout the 50s, 60s, and 70s, the test was not standardized. Time periods for sections constantly changed as well as what the sections tested. Since the tests changed, one can not expect the average scores to remain the same under these conditions.

Under "D. The Nation"
1.) This only shows an increase in crime, not who perpetrated the crime. As the Christian population today is 75% of the general population and also 75% of the prison population, but athests are 15% of the general population and only .02% of the prison population, it seem that not praying would make you less likely to commit crimes.
2.) Being that illegal drugs are mostly come from imports, we can safetly conclude that lack of prayer in school is not a cause for increased drug activity.
3.) The increase in abortion may also be attributed to an increase in pregnancies caused by lack of education and a professed dislike of protection by the Pope. If we wish a decrease in abortions, we should stop teaching religious policies of "abstinence only" and provide real information about protection and contraception.

In addition, many abortions are only done due to the mother being at risk to carry the child past where the fetus could be removed into ICU, let alone to carry the child to term. It has nothing to do with any theological point of view, but only on what is best to keep the mother alive.
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sugrfree 7 years ago
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Induced abortions usually result from unintended pregnancies, which often occur despite the use of contraception (CDC).

54% of women having abortions used a contraceptive method during the month they became pregnant. Among those women, 76% of pill users and 49% of condom users reported using the methods inconsistently, while 13% of pill users and 14% of condom users reported correct use (AGI).

8% of women having abortions have never used a method of birth control (AGI).

9 in 10 women at risk of unintended pregnancy are using a contraceptive method (AGI).

Oral contraceptives, the most widely used reversible method of contraception, carry failure rates of 6 to 8% in actual practice (NAF).

Condom use confers protection against STIs, but it does not provide top-tier protection from pregnancy because of breakage, slippage, inconsistent use, and low continuation rates (NAF).
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sugrfree 7 years ago
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Honestly, I believe that women's "liberation" is a big joke. Nowadays, women are bound by society's norms for fashion, what beauty is "supposed to look like," and many other lies that have been planted in society. Not to mention the fact that women that back then, curviness was actually something to go after, instead of the stick thin trend circulating right now.eating disorders have risen since that time. 80% of women don't feel beautiful now. There are more beauty products now then there were in the 1960s. Now, if you're not sexy, then you're not normal, in media terms.

I think society tends to be more sexist to MEN. A majority of America's women treat men like dogs, acting like they're idiots. In fact, a lot of the men I know just take it. I don't see any "Men's Liberation" groups out there. Women should just stand up for themselves and not worry about making laws and such that implements their so called "bondage."

Actually, I'm pretty sure the USA spends more money now on education, than it did back then. With all the yoga classes, spiritual classes (outside of christianity of course) , sports, etc. You get the picture.

Condoms and contraception do not stop STDs nor are a sure way to prevent pregnancies. They are never guaranteed. What's improper about teaching is that most teachers don't mention that these are positively going to protect anything.

Then, if the tests changed, wouldn't you think we'd be getting better stats? Because usually, when someone changes public education, we should be getting better grades, NOT lower.

Probably about half of the Christian population is lying about their beliefs. Just because one attends church and listens to christian music, does not mean they are saved.

Yes, but who exactly is getting into jail? Is it the "Christians?" I honestly doubt it's more than ten percent.

What does imports have to do with that? It doesn't matter where they come from. It's the fact that our drug rates are higher than they've ever been.

As I said before, protection is not guaranteed. It might work, it might not. There's no definite. People put too much stock in a pope. He's not God, therefore I do not have to heed his every word. He made his own grave with that one.

I disagree. People who are taught the real truth (that contraceptives and condoms don't always do the job and that STDs can kill and make you sterile). It doesn't have to be "religious" or not. It just has to be the truth.

Only 12% of women included a physical problem with their health among reasons for having an abortion (NAF).
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